Shrimpsvoices

well tonight we played the worst Carlisle side i have seen who still managed to beat us 2-0 despite our Goalkeeper being MOTM

we have good players the players but not to play 4-3-3 properly yet.

SR said in a recent interview he’s not changing the system he will change the personal first, well!! we have a fair bit to go to the next transfer window, and where will we be by then?

I think the system is ok, everybody plays 433 these days. It is how you go about it that matters and we go about it half hearted at best. Ayunga looked good tonight but everybody else underperformed. Knocking it about from side to side and then pumping it aimlessly doesn't work. What worried me was how disjointed we were tonight.

4.4.3 could well help

We are just as bad with 532, i don't think its so much the formation but the players. They need to be drilled and coached into how to defend like Derek had us.

Thing is before the first international break we were ok but confidence just seems to have drained from us.

marky No.1 wrote:4.4.3 could well help

Haha doubt it!

BerlinWaller wrote:

marky No.1 wrote:4.4.3 could well help

Haha doubt it!

Lol, something needs to change, generally poor since September

Well, for starters, we were playing 4-2-3-1 tonight.

But regardless, formation isn't the issue here. Confidence, aggression, concentration etc - a lot of mental factors in my eyes.

Generally, formations aren't inherently attacking or defensive. It's about how you apply yourself in them and the movements/shapes you take up in different scenarios. Eg, last season we were playing 4-3-3 but were incredible defensive at times.

Well said LS. 433 is fine. The players and tactics are not.

Little Shrimp wrote:Well, for starters, we were playing 4-2-3-1 tonight.

But regardless, formation isn't the issue here. Confidence, aggression, concentration etc - a lot of mental factors in my eyes.

Generally, formations aren't inherently attacking or defensive. It's about how you apply yourself in them and the movements/shapes you take up in different scenarios. Eg, last season we were playing 4-3-3 but were incredible defensive at times.

rubbish!

watching a different game to me, we only had one stopper(Toums) in the middle of a three not two stoppers in a two like your suggesting.

Ayunga was defiantly a right wing forward.

I think over the past few weeks, we've seen how big of a loss Sam Lavelle is - hopefully we can replace him in January.

Last season we had Songo'o, and to a lesser extend Kenyon, protecting the defence - this year we don't. There isn't much point playing Toums as a defensive midfielder, as he's not aggresive enough, he's better going forward.

Hopefully Martin Foyle can identify what we're missing and bring in some players in January - just unfortunate we've given certain players 2 year deals (McDonald & Delaney - to name 2)

Andy D wrote:

Little Shrimp wrote:Well, for starters, we were playing 4-2-3-1 tonight.

But regardless, formation isn't the issue here. Confidence, aggression, concentration etc - a lot of mental factors in my eyes.

Generally, formations aren't inherently attacking or defensive. It's about how you apply yourself in them and the movements/shapes you take up in different scenarios. Eg, last season we were playing 4-3-3 but were incredible defensive at times.

rubbish!

watching a different game to me, we only had one stopper(Toums) in the middle of a three not two stoppers in a two like your suggesting.

Ayunga was defiantly a right wing forward.

I'm sorry to say it like this, but there's no other way to say it: you're wrong.

Granted, depending on player's movements and roles etc the formations they can be quite similar, but tonight Jones was deeper a lot of the time in more of a double pivot with Toums, with Wildig playing more of a No10 kind of position.

On Ayunga - he was playing on the right. His natural instincts, as a forward, are to attack and be more advanced. He didn't, and hasn't in previous games, do a great deal of tracking back. He's been our most potent attacking threat recently but his defensive lapses are concerning. I think McLoughlin needs to be playing on whatever side Ayunga is on to help cover for him.

The buck stops at the managers door and unless he changes tactics then all our hard work to get to EFL1 will have been wasted.

Cole looked a forlorn figure last night isolated on his own with no assistance to change things from a very quiet and subdued manager who after the second goal stood motionless showing very little if any concern about what was happening on the field.

To be given a lesson in movement and passing by a youthful Carlisle team was embarrassing and they deserved their victory under the watchful eyes of their new manager.

Things have to improve drastically before the middle of December for me as we can't go into the transfer window expecting changes to see an improvement judging by the lack of quality in current squad.

Our excellent BoD have worked tirelessly over the last season and this to date to allow our position in EFL1 to be put in danger and if changes are needed.....then so be it.

The Buxton game and a negative result has to be the cut off for me if things don't improve. Read into that what you will...

There appears to be no system or cohesion in the team and we looked a shadow of the team that started this season. The players look lost and rudderless with little if any leadership on the field.

Worrying times for everybody but will the transfer window deliver a much needed improvement.....

Not having a defensive mid is ruining the whole system. Having somebody in that role between the defence and midfield stops the midfield dropping too deep which is happening too often. When the midfield sinks in to defence, the gap between Cole and the midfield becomes too big which then isolates him. We are crying out for that anchor to control the space and then the pitch. Finding a League 1 standard, ready made midfield general is going to be tricky. Signing potentially good footballers won't cut it in January.

BerlinWaller wrote:Not having a defensive mid is ruining the whole system. Having somebody in that role between the defence and midfield stops the midfield dropping too deep which is happening too often. When the midfield sinks in to defence, the gap between Cole and the midfield becomes too big which then isolates him. We are crying out for that anchor to control the space and then the pitch. Finding a League 1 standard, ready made midfield general is going to be tricky. Signing potentially good footballers won't cut it in January.

Have to agree with my old sparring partner.....

January's transfer window may be too late...so a change in the system is needed BUT is our manager capable or even prepared to change......

As I've posted before, he talks a good game but little evidence of it on the field where it matters.

Last night having a sole striker at home expecting him to work miracles was criminal and no wonder Cole looked pissed off knowing he was getting no assistance or encouragement from the bench which isn't the first time this season of late.

Lately games at home have been like a return of seasons prior to DA who had his faults BUT he got his charges organised into a cohesive unit.

Sad...very sad...but we can't afford a return to EFL2...and something needs to change before the end of December........

Next time we play in the league we could be in the bottom 4 and I cannot see this group of players digging us out of there

redrobo wrote:The buck stops at the managers door and unless he changes tactics then all our hard work to get to EFL1 will have been wasted...


...Things have to improve drastically before the middle of December for me as we can't go into the transfer window expecting changes to see an improvement judging by the lack of quality in current squad.

Will you make your mind up?

Is it the manager's fault or are the players lacking quality?

You want to sack the manager before the transfer window opens because we need to get to the transfer window to improve the quality of the squad?

Seriously, sometimes you make my head ache!

Stephen Robinson put a squad together in the matter of a few weeks. Did we have more than four first team players? And one of them wanted to leave. Robinson's reputation is for developing young players. Obviously, he needs to do that within four months for some people?

Come on, get real.

This is our first ever season in league one Neil

If we get relegated then we would still be a football league club

It’s only three years ago we almost went out of the league altogether

So In my humble opinion if and it’s an if we went down we would still be in league two playing against some very very good teams

As per usual Keith is quick to challenge what is posted without putting any alternative offering as to how we get out of this mess we find ourselves in.

The quality of some of SR's signings fall well short of EFL1 standard as others have pointed out. And despite their obvious lack of quality some of these are on 2 year contracts that we are stuck with.

The January window is there to improve a squad but the number of signings made during the close season are simply not EFL1 standard and my worry is that further signings may fall into a similar category.

So come on Keith let's have a few ideas of your own as to how we get ourselves out of any future relegation battle.



By the way we can still have friendly banter between ourselves despite obvious differences....

redrobo wrote:By the way we can still have friendly banter between ourselves despite obvious differences....

Indeed. It is nothing personal when I tell you you are wrong!

I haven't got an answer. I think some players may simply not be League One standard. Stephen Robinson put a squad together in a matter of a few weeks, with the best he could at short notice. I hope that he's identified targets for January that will strengthen the side, although I fear Stockton may be off.

He's had success in the past and I think he's a really good manager. We're a work in progress and I think he's the right person to develop us and players. The club has made well over a million pounds in transfer fees in last year or so. Hopefully that means come January and the end of the season, we can offer more competitive wages, attracting better players. Even if we do end up back in League One, we may be one of the 'bigger clubs' going forwards.

I still think we're good enough to work our way out of this slump. Cambridge & Carlisle were abysmal and to be honest, I thought we were fortunate against Newport, but the general quality up until then, even when we lost, wasn't too bad.

Give the manager time and support. That's my alternative offering.

redrobo wrote:The quality of some of SR's signings fall well short of EFL1 standard as others have pointed out. And despite their obvious lack of quality some of these are on 2 year contracts that we are stuck with.

I just wonder what has happened since August and September when, for me, it looked like we had got players of L1 standard, they were playing as a unit, were exciting to watch and they put effort in win or lose... we walked away generally happy.

Then October arrived, we were 3.0 up at Wycombe and turning it on in that first half, then something went wrong and we have pretty much lost the plot since.

I presume we have pretty much spent our budget, so how do we cast out the players we consider arent up to standard when some have 2 year contracts.

These next 2 games against Fleetwood and Charlton are cosmic in relation to League positions and although there is a long way to go we can't afford to lose either and really need a win to give us a boost before MK Dons.

Also hope the guaranteed tv clash at Buxton doesnt embarass us

marky No.1 wrote:Also hope the guaranteed tv clash at Buxton doesnt embarass us

That is the only "must win" game in the next month. Every League game is important, but failure against Buxton will be too embarrassing. The potential of a Third Round tie against a Premiership club and the money that comes with it could shape the future of the entire club.

marky No.1 wrote:I just wonder what has happened since August and September when, for me, it looked like we had got players of L1 standard, they were playing as a unit, were exciting to watch and they put effort in win or lose... we walked away generally happy.

Then October arrived, we were 3.0 up at Wycombe and turning it on in that first half, then something went wrong and we have pretty much lost the plot since.

It really is like a switch was thrown and the lights went out. Prior to that, I genuinely thought a play-off place wasn't beyond us. Perhaps we've simply been found out? Keep Cole quiet and no-one else will score? When he is so closely marked, it should leave space elsewhere, but we can't find that space at the moment. And we still can't defend set plays.

Keith wrote:

marky No.1 wrote:

marky No.1 wrote:I just wonder what has happened since August and September when, for me, it looked like we had got players of L1 standard, they were playing as a unit, were exciting to watch and they put effort in win or lose... we walked away generally happy.

Then October arrived, we were 3.0 up at Wycombe and turning it on in that first half, then something went wrong and we have pretty much lost the plot since.

It really is like a switch was thrown and the lights went out. Prior to that, I genuinely thought a play-off place wasn't beyond us. Perhaps we've simply been found out? Keep Cole quiet and no-one else will score? When he is so closely marked, it should leave space elsewhere, but we can't find that space at the moment. And we still can't defend set plays.

exactly this!

its like the left and right wing forwards we have in the front 3 aren't good enough in supporting Cole Stockton and why its the formation and system.

against Newport in the 2nd half we went to a 4-4-2 diamond shape midfield with just the really good fullbacks we are blessed with providing the width what suited us.

BerlinWaller wrote:When the midfield sinks in to defence, the gap between Cole and the midfield becomes too big which then isolates him.

Not only that, but there's never anyone in the centre circle anymore for free kicks/corners, etc., so if we do get the ball, it invariably gets "hoofed up" to no-one, because there's no one there, so it comes straight back at us. It does seem Cole has been instructed to come back and defend all the time at the moment, which really reduces our threat of a counter attack. I wonder if Robbo wants everyone back due to our weakness and lack of defensive midfielders.

marky No.1 wrote:I just wonder what has happened since August and September when, for me, it looked like we had got players of L1 standard, they were playing as a unit, were exciting to watch and they put effort in win or lose... we walked away generally happy.

I think it's as simple as our opposing teams not knowing who we are nor how we play due to it being such a new squad with new manager etc. They simply couldn't do any research on us as a playing unit.

Once we were "found out", it's now easy for opposition managers to spot our strengths (Cole) and weaknesses (defence), and run rings around us.

It's often seemed to be that way on previous years, i.e. a few times we've been towards the top of the league after the first few games, but then we seem to have an "Autumn" slump in form where we go several weeks without a win, finally to get a few wins in the Spring with new bodies (usually loanees brought in during January).

Andy D wrote:exactly this!

its like the left and right wing forwards we have in the front 3 aren't good enough in supporting Cole Stockton and why its the formation and system.

against Newport in the 2nd half we went to a 4-4-2 diamond shape midfield with just the really good fullbacks we are blessed with providing the width what suited us.

You do realise we were playing 4-3-3 at the start of the season at the time that Keith has referenced?

On the diamond - we only went to this formation when Toums came on in the 79th minute, after we had already gone ahead.

More generally - I think I disagree that we're too Stockton-centric, if anything we're a bit too Ayunga-centric currently. He's brilliant and dynamic, but seriously needs to improve his decision making. Just tries to leather shots, even when there's a good pass going.

A few people have said we were lucky against Newport - I've only just been able to watch the game, and I really don't think we got lucky. I think we edged a tight game, and a draw probably wouldn't have been unfair. We also had the only actual clear chance of the whole game. Felt we had a good deal of the play, and Newport mainly threatened when catching us off guard occasionally.